Episode 7 - Authentic self

How do you fit in with your team? How do you fit in with people around you?
Or do you belong? And what do you give up when you're trying to fit in?
In today's episode, we discuss our take on pursuit of authentic self
based on our experience and thoughts. Welcome to The Imperfect Clinician.
Hello! Welcome to The Imperfect Clinician. Today we're going to talk about authentic self.
Authentic self is quite a broad idea of self-recognition in a way.
But first, I think it's important to talk about fitting in and belonging. What do you think?
Yeah, I think for us to be able to be or access our authentic self, we need to see where we are
on a personal level and on a professional level, whether we are fitting in in that environment
or whether we have a sense of belonging. Okay, so tell me more about what is the difference,
but is it the same thing? How would you define fitting in? How would you define belonging?
The best definition of fitting in belonging that I've heard is from Brené Brown.
She mentioned that when you fit in, you take away some part of you in order to fit in,
because you want to be like everybody else. So you can't be completely yourself. And when you have
a sense of belonging, you are with a group of people and you respect each other's differences
and you can fully celebrate who you are as a person. So I think to give some personal example
will make it more relatable to people who are listening. So for me, when I was working
in the UK, it took me a very long while to have the confidence, to have the pride
in talking about my own culture, celebrating Chinese New Year. So
this year is the first time I talked about Chinese New Year to everyone that I spoke to
in a work setting. So previously, I've always done it in a personal setting,
but never in a work setting to the level where I got lanterns to decorate people's room,
officers, and the rest of it. And it took me a very long while to do that because I was trying
to be like everybody else whilst orphaning a part of myself. So with me being an immigrant
with different culture, I think a lot of it is when I care about the perception of others
at the expense of myself.
So I think we do the fitting in,
as a form of protection. So we do that because we don't know how safe it is in the workplace.
We're going in to assess how people are, how is the culture. So there is this great TED talk
by Jodi-Ann Burey about why you should not bring your authentic self to work.
And in there, she talked about the reason why you shouldn't bring it to work. And the key thing is,
especially at the start, is because when you don't understand the culture at work and you just go in
without any observation in place, you risk exclusion, you risk bullying, you risk
racism, you risk being different. And difference can be ostracised.
Yeah. Well, but is it always a bad thing to try to fit in? Because I've got this experience that
when I moved to UK, I really wanted to embrace and celebrate where I live. And I wanted to
find out what it's like to live here. So in order to recognise people's behaviours, clues,
what people talk about, it's, I think, good to try to understand it. I mean, I don't think that
on all levels, fitting in belonging can exclude itself. But what am I trying to say is that
it's not always a bad thing trying to fit in because you tend to learn more about the culture,
about people, about everyday life, and basically what makes people tick in general. And what people
care about is how you try to understand the surroundings around you.
You do that when you have a sense of belonging as well. The difference between the both is
not when you don't observe people. The difference is you observe, but how you have to
carry yourself. How do you bring in your culture, your differences safely for you into this
workplace? And so fitting in is the observing, trying to be part of the group. But in order to
be part of the group, you have to take away a part of yourself that's really important to you.
And the thing with belonging is you still observe because we have to observe everybody
for social setting, even for personal setting, we have to observe how people react.
But in that context of belonging, you don't have to take away any part of yourself because
all parts of you are celebrated and encouraged.
So is it a phase then fitting in until you feel safe where you can feel truly that you belong?
Because if you all of a sudden try to impose whatever your own routines are, your own sort of
maybe, I don't know, all of a sudden you start bringing your own, I don't know, food that's not
everyday. Everybody's eating sandwiches and you bring something else and all of a sudden...
I think the fact that you're using imposing shows that you're so afraid of other people's perception.
No, because the thing is if you march into a group of people around you, whether it's at work or not,
wherever it is in the world, I'm not saying even for marching, you're sort of selling yourself in a
way as, right, this is what I am and all that this is and I demand to belong in here.
I don't think you can demand to belong in there. You have to feel safe to have that sense of belonging.
Yeah, and this is what I'm trying to get you, that fitting in might be considered as a little phase,
like you try to recognize what it's like, so yes, you give a little bit of yourself.
I disagree because if fitting in is equivalent to removing a part of yourself, we need to create a
sense of belonging at work because you are still observing everybody but your role as a clinician,
your role as a leader, is to create that environment where differences are encouraged
and observed. So I'll give you the example. When I started work, I would talk to others about
Christmas, Easter, the thing that they would celebrate, I would not mention about Chinese
New Year at all from my own insecurities and I don't feel safe enough to talk about it.
And with more confidence from both the professional and personal level, I got to the point where I
am proud of the culture and I feel brave enough to say it to other people. And when I mentioned
it to other people, they were surprised and also they were apologizing for not realizing that I've
got a different culture. So now when I am at work, when I see people bringing in different culture,
I would actively ask them about their belief, what do they celebrate differently, I would encourage
diversity in food, diversity in what they're celebrating, what their family is like,
family dynamics and a lot of other things. And this is something that you can do at the start
by creating a culture that promotes a sense of belonging. And I absolutely agree that we should
encourage and ensure that people are welcome and I don't think that anybody should feel estranged
because of who they are and where they come from, no matter whether they are from different
cultures or not. I just believe that it really adds value to have people from different backgrounds,
from different upbringing, from different perspectives of the world, because that can
just close the barriers and then the gaps between people. And even if you have people from different
cultures, there's nothing against feeling that's absolutely, in my opinion, to be encouraged to
feel both British and, I don't know, wherever you're from, Asian, African, Eastern European,
American. I think that doesn't exclude itself. I think not a lot of the time, so not every single
time the exclusion is from a malicious intent. It's because it comes from reactiveness. So they
will be, because there will be systemic biases, there will be systemic racism and a few other
things in terms of exclusion. However, the difference with us as clinicians, as leaders,
is we have to proactively promote, proactively champion this type of culture. And I'm aware
that a lot of people don't feel that they have the power to, first of all, empower themselves
and, second of all, have difference to change the culture in the workplace. That is a very hard and
very big job to change the culture if there are no people, because it's people, not the systems,
because all companies now talk about diversity, talk about tolerance and everything else,
but it's the people actually and their attitude to others that is, or could potentially be,
greatest barrier. And I think there is great responsibility on all the leaders,
managers, clinicians to encourage diversity. I disagree. I think it's both people and system,
because system has to hold people accountable and system will provide you the data and leaders have
to proactively do that and system will provide you a reflection of how you're doing now and how you
can do better and compare it with everybody else. I think it's both system and people,
just like what James Clear said, you don't, along the line of you don't rise to the loftiest of your
goal, you fall to the level of your systems. That's true. And I absolutely think that systems
are absolutely necessary for that because they provide like a framework for everybody else,
but it's the people that make the systems alive. If you have just the systems and people are not
embracing it, then there is a breakdown. And if you have just people who want to change the
culture and there is no system to support it, that can break down as well. So this is both systems
and people's job to ensure that everybody's welcome and can feel better as themselves.
I agree. So Mike, I wonder what's your experience in your own personal story,
in fitting in and belonging? Well, when I came to UK, everything was new or different to what you
read or watched before coming to the UK. And so you're trying to learn, watch people
to see where are the common grounds and what are the differences. So you learn how people
celebrate Christmas. So you learn how people go about everyday conversation, talking about
whether in UK it's absolutely top of the pops when it comes to trying to find like-minded people
or trying to find the common ground to start of the conversation. And that's something
creatively new. So when you learn that, you feel like you start to fit in. When you're discussing
people's everyday habits, how people go about organizing their lives. I had a big help from
a good book that a friend of mine dropped into my list of books to read. That was Kate Fox's
Watching the English, The Hidden Rules of English Behavior, which she is an anthropologist
talking about here, UK or British in general culture. And it opened my eyes to a lot of things
that I didn't quite grasp. And it's quite difficult if you don't grow up to recognize the
same, I don't know, songs. There's nuances, those nuances, those tiny bits that people know because
they've been watching the same TV programs for many, many years. And I really like living in
the UK and I really want to embrace it. So I watched a lot. I read a lot. And I wasn't a
complete stranger to UK because I grew up on watching and listening and reading a lot of UK
films, books and whatever. But later you start realizing that right here, the Christmas is very
traditional. In most homes you have set routine for the day, which is not, as I remember it,
back at home. Because back at home, the more significance for the family has the Christmas
Eve. I always used to love that in Poland we like to celebrate things before they happen.
So just the Christmas Eve was more important than the actual Christmas usually, as a family
gathering, as a union of people who spend time, who make effort to spend time together on that
special day. And Christmas was sort of after party in a way. So how is it different for you
in Poland celebrating Christmas Eve in terms of the details of the culture? I think it'll be
interesting for people to listen to. Well, you look out for the first star
to sit down for the meal. And the meal is very traditionally meat-free and there are meant to
be 12 courses and people make a lot of effort. There are special things that you eat only during
Christmas Eve. And you share the bread between people. When you wish each other all the best
luck and best wishes, you do it personally, eye to eye. And you celebrate the meeting,
the gathering, and the opportunity that comes every year. It's very, very personal, very
charming. You sit around, again, Christmas tree. You still have presents. In Poland,
the presents have been open after Christmas Eve's meal. Here in UK, they're open on the first day
of Christmas after the kids wake up. And that's the difference. And this is one of the things
that I adopted in a way from the UK because it's better for kids to have a good sleep before they
open the presents. So I think we decided that we started doing both. So we got enough presents for
actually Christmas Eve to retain some of the culture and some of the presents on Christmas
morning. Yeah, but because we don't flood the children with too many presents, we want to make
sure that they appreciate the presents rather than are flooded with bags of them. But nonetheless,
I think that by learning, by trying to understand how people celebrate special occasions here in the
UK, you get the understanding of where is the importance. And after a while, when you feel
safe or comfortable, you want also to share what's important for yourself. And this is how you
open up. This is how you become more authentic. This is how you try to celebrate both because
there's nothing stopping celebrating both. So I wonder what is the fear that's driving the
decision of not mentioning Christmas Eve before you feel confident or safe?
I think it's the fear of being set as an outcast, as somebody who can't fit in,
or maybe even to some extent, who doesn't respect local things, local customs, local
celebrations, and wants to override everything with their own ideas that they bring from
elsewhere. And I think there is a place for everything, for celebration of all different
cultures, holidays, conversations even. And I'm pretty sure that by making a lot of space for
others to express themselves, because even between people of the same culture, they have got
slightly different habits, routines, customs that they follow. And that makes people unique. And I
think that that should be celebrated and we should learn one from another what makes
special value or importance to us.
No, I agree. Thank you for sharing the story because people who are listening will have some
part of themselves that they might not feel comfortable in sharing yet, or they have gone
through the part where they've taken the courage to share. And it made them feel, for me,
made me feel liberated.
Yeah, I think that it allows you to feel more welcome if you have an opportunity to share
what you stand for, what you like, what you enjoy, or what is the tradition. I'm not particularly
fanatic about obeying all the traditions as they meant to be for hundreds of years because that's
not how they progress. I'm more keen to create new traditions that are sort of evolving from old.
That's what we had to do. I mean, in our household, we have a mixture of
cultures and I think that this just adds to the value. There is nothing stopping us celebrating
both Christmas and Chinese New Year or any other holiday. I'm very happy to engage with any.
Also in Poland, we do celebrate names days, which is like your patron's day in a way.
Everybody has time in a year where you can check on calendar whose names day it is and it's more
of like an open celebration, whereas the birthday is more for the family.
Explain what is patron's day for those who don't understand.
Your name usually was given traditionally, I'm talking generations ago, by your parents
based on patrons of usually somebody saint or somebody that has got some space in history.
And so your birthday and your names day are in different months?
Oh yeah, they usually are. Well, it doesn't have to be. It's not a rule or anything,
but you absolutely are. My names day is in September and there's another reason to
celebrate. I mean, I don't do anything particular to dress as Mike or whatever, but it's just
another way of saying, right, yeah, why can't we have a cake or a glass of wine?
I think it's really interesting because we are celebrating this with the children and when they
speak to other Polish people with the same name, they'll go, oh yeah, we have the same names day,
for example. And it's a common, it's a sense of connection. It's a starting point for conversation
as well, perhaps. Absolutely. So I think we've covered quite a bit about fitting in and belonging
and I think it would be a good moment to talk about belonging at work. What value does it bring
for you as a clinician? To have a team where the fitting in is only part of welcoming people
and where you allow people to be themselves and to feel like they belong. I think having a sense
of belonging is something much deeper. I saw, I read somewhere that when you, when people are
saying, I want to remove racism, I want to remove microaggression, I want to remove bullying,
it's good to have actions to remove all of that. And something a bit deeper is to actually create
a sense of belonging for everybody in the team. And I think to create that, we mentioned about
proactively encouraging people to open up about themselves as the leader to embrace vulnerability
like we mentioned in our previous episode and address our fear so we can show to other people,
let's say in my team, if I'm the lead, I have more power. So what I am doing is embrace my
vulnerability and it's not power over, it's power with. So I am giving them the power to empower
them to open up about themselves once they feel safe. And I am modeling that on a day-to-day
example and it can be directly connected to me. It can be indirect because what I find is when I am
able to access my authentic self, I'm able to then speak to other people with a different
level of confidence and create a safe environment. So I've been in my workplace for quite some time
and only recently I knew about somebody else having a different culture that they're celebrating,
but they've not mentioned ever in the workplace. And because I was celebrating Chinese New Year,
that started a conversation. And at the end of the conversation, it was,
oh, actually seeing you doing that, it makes me feel that I can do that with mine too. And we
agreed to celebrate her culture together next time. And even if it's two, you feel you make
the other person feel less alone. I think it's even more important because it just stresses
that we want to embrace all the cultures that we live in. I mean, where we come from,
where we are, or maybe where we're going. And I think it's important that they do not exclude
themselves. I don't. When you say they, who do you mean? They in terms of the cultures. So
if you are British and Polish, you don't have to take away your Polishness, so to speak,
to become celebrating the British things. And I think that they all go hand in hand because
you are who you are and you cannot separate those things. Even if you are British and you have
another British person that's your neighbor, you will be slightly different. You may have
longer history of living here, but you will be different people. And I think it would encourage
people to start showing what matters for them and what makes them safe because that's going
to affect how they feel about themselves at work and also at home. And when you asked me
the question about how it's going to impact work, I think when you have a sense of belonging
at work, we spend quite a large amount of our life at work. And I think if you actually have
a positive culture instead of a toxic culture, you would go to work feeling like you are sharing the
vision. You understand the purpose of the company. You understand the purpose of the team that you're
working with. And because you have the psychological safety, it allows you to
make mistakes and learn from it. Not mistakes from a clinical perspective where you are harming
people's life, but from the perspective of being creative with ideas to look at how do we change
systems, speak to other people and be brave enough to get feedback because we can't get it right all
the time. And so I noticed that when I do that, every single person in the team gives more than
I asked for because I didn't ask for anything. I created that sense of belonging in the team
and because everyone felt safe, we are open to changes. We're not resistant to change.
We share a common purpose. We are creative. We are adaptable. And all of that that people
are looking for at work can be done if we look deeper instead of focusing on the performance
part of it. We need to look at the emotional part of it like we mentioned in our previous episodes.
So going back to analog skills.
Yes, we are emotional creatures. And so if we feel safe, if we feel strong, if we feel protected,
we are able to stretch ourselves more without being overstretched because we have the support
around us. Not just one-to-one support, but peer support, the network support.
For me, when we're talking about feeling safe to become more open and to feel like you belong,
it is a direct translation to how your idea of family life should be. Because where do you feel
or where you want to feel safest within your family? And that's translating it to the work.
It creates people more extended family. And this is the value that safety is one of the greatest
and underappreciated values that we often take for granted or something that we can't find.
This is where many anxiety issues arise and this is what we want to work on.
But now, going forward, we talked a lot about fitting in in belonging between others.
So feeling authentic on the outside to others. Being authentic on the outside. So how about
feeling authentic for ourselves? What is true us for ourselves?
I think being authentic is equivalent to feeling authentic because you can't exclude one from
another. It's the rebalance that you're trying to do. One, you're trying to feel that you belong
in a group. Second, you want to be authentically yourself. And third, you want to be connected to
other people. And so being authentic to yourself would make you feel that you can do more things
because you have less fear driving you or the fear of being addressed and dealt with.
Because the fears, I don't think for me, will ever go away. It's how I'm able to identify the
fear and how I'm able to manage it or how I can decide how long they are affecting me for and how
much. And so when I'm able to access my authentic self and for me to be my authentic self, the fears
are addressed and managed. And I feel that I am able to move forward with what I want to do
on a professional level for myself and also professional level around the people that I
speak to, clinicians, patients, and on a personal level, my role as a mum, as a daughter.
So bearing that in mind, where is the conflict or is there a conflict between
being authentic to yourself and to others? What do you mean being authentic to others?
Because you can feel like, right, I am true, honest with myself. I do things the way I like
it. And then you go to spend time with others at work, friends, and you fit in and that's not
authentic. Then you're not being authentic when you're at work, you are fitting in, or whether
it's at work or socially. So it's when you are being your authentic self, this is in all settings.
When you have separate settings, when you go socially, you switch off this part of yourself,
that's fitting in, that's not authentic at all. Can we have different authentic selves?
What do you mean? Well, you can have, I don't know, this is just a position, so you can have
feel comfortable as at home, as I don't know, part of subculture or something that you
can identify with and then at work completely, you know, have a different side to yourself,
be like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Then you're not really accessing authentic self because
the version of you at home, whether you're alone or whether you're a family, it's a place of safety.
And so that's who you are, but if you're not able to access who you are in any other setting,
those are the settings where you're trying to fit in. Some people might not even fit in at home,
depending on the safety of it. That's the thing, this is why families grow apart,
because people cannot be themselves at homes very often, they look for luck elsewhere.
How do we notice change, that we become more aware of ourselves and becoming more authentic?
Is it through knowing yourself or is it about showing what you know already to the others?
Both. So the first thing where you say knowing yourself, I think without knowing your triggers,
what we talked about shame and guilt and fears, you're not able to identify the
defensiveness that's in place that stops you from accessing your authentic self, your truer self,
where you can be who you are, cultures, flaws and everything without the fear of judgment,
the fear of, like you said, ostracize, the fear of not belonging,
worried about other people's perception. So is there an impact of how people see us
onto our behavior, changing our authentic self? I'm assuming that people you come across
have an impact on you and I believe that there's got to be some sort of change onto
of your authentic self. But where is the strength in giving in or staying
true to yourself? Or is it a matter of personal compass? You learn something new that's better
what you already know and you become a better authentic self? I think, first of all, we have
to understand the perception of others started when we were very young. So I'll give the example
of when I, because I'm the eldest daughter, I've always been given the role of you are the most
responsible one. You need to take care of x, y and z. This is your responsibility. This is what you
need to do. You need to be a role model and this stuck throughout and that became how I saw my
self-worth. So if I'm caring for others, if I'm helping to reduce the burden, that is how I prove
my worth, my existence. And so I do that all throughout growing up
in university and still trying to do that unconsciously because that has become my
defensive skill. If I'm saying yes, if I'm a people pleaser all the time,
one of the shame reactions that we discussed in our previous episode, if I'm saying yes to
questions that are being asked at me, I will take on the burden even though I am close to burning
out. When I do that and when I'm not aware of it, I am not able to first of all set boundaries,
second of all be strong enough to say to others, no, I need the space to recover, I need time,
I need whatever it is. And when I'm not able to do that, I'm not able to access my authentic self.
And so I am expecting, from what I can see for myself, authentic self is when I feel strong,
physically, mentally, because I have boundaries for the things that energize me.
Yeah, so what you're saying is basically it is being authentic self, especially around others,
is more than just feeling safe around others. It's just self-empowerment that allows you to
do things in a way that you find most appropriate or most beneficial to others, yourself. So it's
not just the safety. The safety is like a base for it because you can say, right, I feel I belong.
For me, belonging now, based on that discussion, is more than just feeling safe around others.
Yes, because the feeling safe is the first step. There are other things that need to be in place
for other people. We talked about the vulnerability, the proactiveness and a few other
things that give other people and myself that, yeah, I belong and I can say what I want.
So I found this quote that I think is really great in summarizing what we said. So it's from
Mary Brewer, Optimal Distinctiveness Theory. So she said, individuals strive to maintain a balance
between the need to be assimilated by groups to which they belong, need to connect to friends
and loved ones and need for autonomy and differentiation. And so it's all of these
balls that we have to juggle really. This has to come hand in hand with everything that we talked
about so far. So that pops up the question in my head. How authentic can we be in our families?
So we see sometimes young people that have different armors described by parents and
their environment or teachers or others in a completely different way. So you are a different
person with your parents and you are, I don't know, slightly different or very different in
front of your friends. This is how parents find out, oh, is my son in trouble? I will never
believe in it. Because I have a feeling from my own personal perception that my dad never
really knew me. I thought that I have a little bit, there was a little bit more to me than my
dad thought. So was he thinking about me in a way that would fulfill his idea of me or was
he accepting me for who I really was? So that prompts me to a discussion that us as parents,
as leaders or clinicians, we need this additional effort to provide the environment for others
to promote authenticity or otherwise the alternative that we create a matrix around us
based on our preconceptions and some sort of prejudices and desires of what the world around
us should look like. So you mentioned that your dad did not know you and you were able to be,
to access your authentic self around friends. I'm wondering did you feel safe to be able
to talk about your thoughts, your worries with your dad?
I don't think I felt safe because I thought that if I'm going to show my
true authentic self that would be used against me.
Yeah, so emotionally unsafe.
Yes, so that was emotionally a lack of feeling that I can,
I thought that it would put me in a vulnerable position in the future. And if something went
wrong in the area of, for example, studying my authentic self, say, for example, that I
play instrument in a band or whatever, that would be used as the reason for my failure. So
me, myself, I am to blame for what's gone wrong.
And so when you talk about the vulnerability then,
is it for you to find it hard to embrace your vulnerability
with your dad? Is it partially because he was not able to embrace his own vulnerabilities?
SH. Yeah, I think that admitting that you could be vulnerable
is not something that, in my dad's head, was in the realm of being a good father.
And that was a barrier for him to be vulnerable in front of others, especially the family.
And so I want to just very quickly mention about vulnerabilities
here for people who've just joined us for today. And if you haven't heard our previous episodes
go back, what I wanted to say is for your dad to show vulnerability, would it be along the line of,
I'm sorry I said this to you. I'm sorry I made you feel this way.
So I wonder when you talk about your vulnerability being used as
a point of attack for you, based on what you're sharing, it's something that you've experienced
before. And I was wondering how would it make you feel if your dad was able to share his
vulnerabilities?
I think sharing vulnerability is definitely affecting the distance between people.
And I think that it would allow greater understanding not only in the role of parent and
child, but also as a person. When you are vulnerable, especially towards others and
those that are your loved ones, it allows them to reflect on themselves. And if you start doing it
early enough, your connection will be of immense value. I have a feeling that sometimes I felt
that my dad's living, and I think to some extent, a lot of parents do, they live in a certain matrix
of living by the ideals of the children, of the idea of them, rather than accepting who they are.
That's why they want to, they think, oh, my child is more, I don't know, is very good at maths because
I was good at maths and I'm sure they're going to be good at maths. And you just fake in the
reality if they're not good at maths and you're just fulfilling your own dreams through your
child. And you say always wanted to ride horses, so that's what you're going to push for your
children. I mean, we spoke to a lady that says, yeah, this is fulfilling my dream because I always
wanted to be on the horses. So now the child wasn't particularly pleased to be on a horse, but was still
not forced, encouraged. That thing about maths, that was exactly what my mom said to me.
And I think the matrix that the parents create around them, and this is in a direct
analogy to the movie where you sort of live in a world that you created not only for yourself,
but also for others, I think it comes out from lack of listening and lack of interest
in the true authentic children. I believe that you have to trust your children a little bit,
and then they're going to come back to you, trusting you. And I think how we are perceived
by our parents later affects how confident we are dealing with others, how quickly we can
find safety amongst others, and how quickly we can show our true authentic selves to others.
And I wonder now reflecting as parents, is there not a lot of it driven by fear? I need you to,
in essence, I'm worried that you're not good at something. And what if you can't
succeed? Or what if you can't do what you want to do? What if society perceived you as
not good enough? It's a thing the perception of society can really mess your life up. And I think
the fear is the driver for improvement. The thing is how forceful this improvement is going to be,
or how convincing you're going to be to your child or even people in your team. Because if you're
leading a team, you want them to move forward. And sometimes it can taint the picture of the
true ability of the team if you feel that they are more competent or more knowledgeable or faster
in doing things. And that's where frustration and the disconnection of the leader can appear.
And this will create the barrier and this will create the disconnection between the ambition of
the leader and the ability of the team because you will be detached then. I also think that
what should put together the leaders and teams is the purpose of the work that they're doing
together, they're working on, rather than the outcome. Because we're probably going to come
back to it when we're talking about the teams and leadership part of the equation in our team
interaction. But the purpose why we're doing things is important than actual outcome. Outcome
should be a byproduct. It should be a derivative and not an angle, not something that we go for,
not that we focus on. Because if you deliver things for the right reason, you will succeed
if you, at least in agreement with your authentic self and authentic self of the whole team.
And I think we're going to leave it at that. Tell us what your thoughts are. These are just
our ideas of what we think that might be we have no patent on being right.
I think a lot of it, at least for me, is lived experience. So I'm hoping that when I
am sharing my stories, it creates some resonance with some of you that are listening. And I hope
that you can relate, reflect and rise. Thank you all for listening.
Thank you until next time, it's been Yuen and Mike, and you have been listening to the
imperfect clinician podcast. You can follow the imperfect clinician on Instagram, Twitter,
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Join us next week for another conversation. Thank you for listening.
Bye.