The Paradox of Sacrifice: How Giving Up Something Can Make You Gain More

How much have you sacrificed in life? A little? A little bit more? A lot?
How your life is sacrificed? How much regret and guilt is within it?
My name is Mike.
It's Yuen.
Welcome to The Imperfect Clinician.
How much can you sacrifice in life, Yuen? What do you think?
A lot. I think knowingly and sometimes unknowingly step into the situation.
What is sacrifice for you? What does it mean? Because we all hear about, you know, sacrifice
in the old historic religion sense, for example, that you sacrifice a person, a goat or whatever.
But we're talking about those sacrifices that are in our everyday life that we take on and decline.
I see it as when you have to give up something, something that is valuable to you.
And it can be in a different sense.
What do you mean in a different sense?
So it can be financial. It can be not as easily quantifiable as that.
So, for example, relationship, time, effort.
So you still, with regards to the sacrifice, you still operate with your feelings.
This is a highly emotional state of affairs in that respect, because you give up something that
is close to you, close to your heart. And to make a decision, do you need feelings or do you need a
bit of brain as well to sort of analyze whatever's going on?
I think that's why we'll talk about both in this episode.
Very good. So now, for me, everything in life is give and take. So if you gain some,
you will inevitably lose some. And trying to navigate through all those different eventualities
is very, very tricky and difficult. And we very often can't go back to the previous
situation. We are not cats to have nine lives. We can't go back in a sense of time travel.
So we have to be wise with our choices. We have one shot at the life and we have to
compromise somewhere. Would you see sacrifice as a bit of a compromise?
I think I just want to give a bit of context to what you said earlier on.
Everything in life comes at a cost, because I think sometimes when I hear the word sacrifice,
I think about something that is not of choice. However, there will be a situation where
you might perceive it as a good news. However, in the long run, it might also mean that you
sacrificing something in the meantime. So for example, if you work really hard for a job
or a promotion and you get that promotion, brilliant news. You've been recognized.
You'll have financial compensation. You will do more exciting things. However,
when you take on something with more responsibility, there is always a cost,
like you said, to it. That might mean that you will have less time for yourself,
for your family, for your social life. And so it's always a good idea to step into
any situation, whether you deem it as positive or negative, with an open mind, because you'll
always have both sides of the coin to look at. I will stand by it. And on top of everything,
with sacrifice, it can, in my opinion, be both good and bad. So it doesn't necessarily have to
be a negative term for me. Because if you put on scales what you're leaving behind
and what you might gain, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's worse.
There is a cost to it, I agree. The thing is, I think that we are leaving behind some things that
we are used to, whether it's people, places, family, or our habits. And we embark on a new
journey that can open few new doors and some opportunities. But it's not necessarily going to
affect us negatively. In a lot of cases, probably the negatives are prominent to start with,
but then maybe the purpose and the goal of our sacrifice can justify that.
So does sacrifice bring strength in life? Does it make us appreciate our choices a bit more?
I think it is a bit like an investment. So you commit to a certain idea or process or project,
and you channel your resources to achieve your goals. Usually things that would provide you with
short-term benefits for the sake of greater good and the profits you would harvest at the end of
that sacrifice, so in the longer perspective. And nothing comes without a cost, so in any business
you have to invest. It's like in life, you have to commit to something, you have to sacrifice your
free time to learn something new. You have to sacrifice Netflix to read a book to learn
something from the book. And these are the choices that can benefit us. Yes, there are sometimes
sacrifices that are forced on us by life, and some that we choose to go for when we're looking for
personal gains or even family gains or, I don't know, social life gains in a longer perspective.
Everybody is different and their goal and purpose will differ. So what do you think about this
investment idea? I absolutely agree. I think when you're looking at committing
to something, let's say you're studying for an exam and you want to invest your time
in doing well, something has to give. It might be that you are reducing some time with your friends
in order to have more time studying and finding a fine balance between that. I wonder when you talk
about choices and losing family of such, what are your experiences if you're happy to share one
for you? Well for me the big one is the obvious one. I decided at some stage that I'm going to
move to a different country and I understand that it comes as the cost because you will be only
remotely accessible for your family. Your contact with your friends will be less so and that's the
cost. And it's a big cost and it's still until today I can feel that there are some things that
I'm never going to step back into. I was far away when my mom passed away, I was far away
when my dad passed away and these are the things that you miss out for and you think that the guilt
of not being there you put down to that sacrifice that you did, that you moved to a different
country for your own personal development, for changing your personal situation. And when you
realize that it doesn't necessarily have to be the actual cause of it because you might as well live
with your mom and then you are away at work and she passes away, then you would still regret not
being with her in those last moments. And it must be really hard processing that.
I wonder what are the emotions when you chose to then move to a different country.
What are the feelings that you have to process within you when you were making that decision
and also how did people around you react to that?
Well it was the process of coming to a decision and I think everything always,
provided it is your choice, starts with excitement and there is an idea that you want to pursue
just to see what it's like. When I moved to United Kingdom I never thought that I was going to stay
here all my life but on the other hand I never said that I was going to stay here for a very
short time for example. So I came here with an open mind and I was excited to see what it's like
to live in a different country, what it's like to work with different people in a different
environment, find myself in a way with my somewhat, if you're listening to our previous episodes,
train relationships with my dad. It was also a form of escape, it was also a form of setting
boundaries to say yes in terms of looking after your mental health,
my mental health, and that it was all very mixed bags of emotions and it's very very hard to say
whether everything was positive or not. My sister is far away, I probably don't speak to her as
frequently as I would have done otherwise when we were closer to each other but that's not
guaranteed. My friends that I absolutely adore and this is also a huge regret that I can't
spend time with them and then when I look at how my personal life turned out,
I met you, we got married, we have beautiful children, I enjoy my work, I'm starting all sorts
of different projects here and there that really excite me. I don't think that I would have the
same opportunities back home because moving here opened me up to so many different things.
It could have gone a completely different way if I stayed, so I sacrificed being close to the
family, being close to my friends, being close to the environment I grew up out of just sheer
excitement, you know, going out, oh we're gonna see what it's gonna be like. And first years were
difficult, difficult in terms of it was the time of relationship deficit and I'm not only talking
about the partner, I'm talking about the relationship deficit with the people I know
best, with my family, with my friends, because you try to overcompensate certain things too,
try to fly back to see people and all that, but then you realize that you are growing apart
because situations change, you get busy with your work, with your life and you realize that you
can't stretch yourself between two countries not to put strain on yourself, so you naturally evolve
around the world that you've created, the new world that you created, a new place. And that
allowed me to persevere and to see the purpose of it. I felt better, I felt relieved and I felt
distanced to some problems that were haunting me, I guess, back in Poland and started a fresh page
here in the UK. How about you? You need to give me an example. I guess mine has got some different
level of context, a sacrifice for me comparing to how I experienced things which previously was the
most luxurious things. For example, playing the piano, paint, doodle, anything that is creative
was always deemed as something that is not productive in terms of it's a clear goal,
making sure that you score highly to get a scholarship to get into a good university.
And get your parents off your back.
And that's always been continuous. So I guess when I look back, I go,
maybe I could have experienced life a little bit more when I was growing up. However,
what's happened previously has shaped me who I am now. And even though some part of the past
has been difficult, I am still grateful for the difficulties because without that I am not who I
am now. So little things in the past where I took for granted, for example, hiding a book in the
toilet, fictional books, because you can only read books that will help you score well in the exam.
So any fictional books are hidden in the toilet, and then I would stay for ages in the toilet,
whichever business I'm doing. That's how you learn how to read so fast.
And then that is my only chance to read and immerse myself in an imaginative world. And so
small things like this now I reflect and think, yes, it was a sacrifice that my parents wanted,
they sacrificed, also from the financial perspective to make sure that they are able
to send us overseas to study. And for that, I am eternally grateful. And for me, sacrificing the
time to be more mindful and be more present about the little things that you have in life that you
can enjoy, I am able to almost take a step back and savor it now. Whether it's five, 10 minutes
of sitting down reading a book, any book, fiction, non-fiction, I'm able to go. I wasn't able to do
this previously without the limitation and the expectation weighing on my shoulders, but now
I can do this. And also knowing that when I'm doing this, I'm setting an example for
the children to be an avid reader, to show interest in differences. And to show curiosity.
And to show curiosity, absolutely. And even one of our child said the other day,
mommy's always reading. And I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing,
but I took it as a compliment. So I think something as simple as that for me has been
previously a sacrifice, but now I see it as a type of pleasure that I can tap into without
any guilt involved. And there are, you know, big sacrifices, there are small sacrifices. I think
that you might as well talk about choices and some of them are sacrifices because we can't go
back. We have to decide on which way we're going. But I think it's hard to discuss sacrifice without
talking about personal guilt or regret. I think that the missed chances that may become overly
emphasized or just heightened by our heads, the people we left behind or affected,
that becomes a bigger problem than it actually should be because that's how we feel, how strongly
we feel about those things and the guilt or regret that we feel. And I think it's okay to feel all
those emotions. So how do we set boundaries to ensure our mental health does not suffer?
For me, it is a matter of committing to that sacrifice because it has to be on some level
realigned to the purpose. I think purpose in that respect is seen as a long-term goal,
whether it's sanity, I don't know, financial security, happiness or fulfillment of creative
ideas. It doesn't matter, but you stick to this purpose that keeps you going and allows you to
see the benefits more than the impact of the negatives that can affect even your mental health.
I think it's also important to acknowledge you talked about choice earlier. For some sacrifices,
we cannot prepare because it was thrust upon people or certain events that happen,
which means that some will have to give up a big part of themselves to fulfill that sacrifice. It
can be being a carer for anyone, for your children, for your parents. And when you are in that
situation, just be mindful of how it can drain you if you don't have anything to
off-balance it in terms of anything to nourish you.
I think that about those sacrifices that we commit to because they were created externally,
shall we say. So your relative is poorly and you commit to care. Like in my family case,
my mom committed to my grandma. This is a completely different level of sacrifice.
And to say the least, without going into too much detail, maybe there will be a better opportunity
for it when we explore this a little bit better ourselves because it is a big subject. My mom
cared for my grandma for over eight years until my grandma died peacefully with her next to her
at the age of just over a hundred. And she hasn't been away from home, never mind holiday,
for longer than a day. That is the sacrifice that my mom took, which in her own thing,
you know, the benefit of it outweighed the cost, although it was really severely impacting her,
her life and everything around her and everyone around her. So we might have to go back to that
maybe sometime in the future.
Yeah, I think it's such a big thing because
we can say, you know, tap into your resources, for example, your support network people that you can
rely on. However, I know not everyone has that privilege. And so even if you don't have that,
I think checking in with yourself and making sure that you are not, you know, overstretched
or burnt out is really a great start because do not wait until that point before you ask for help
or open up and talk about it. So you talk about guilt and regret. What do you think
is the difference between the two?
For me, when we're talking about guilt,
it's usually a feeling that appears when we are thinking that we're doing something wrong.
And very often when we're sacrificing, it doesn't necessarily mean that. It doesn't mean that we
have hurt somebody. It doesn't mean that we have done anything illegal. So, you know, that's when
we normally feel guilt. However, when it comes to regret, this is the thinking in the future, what
we could have done better in the past. So it comes after the experience, usually way down the line.
We sort of reflect on things that we could have done essentially better or in a different way.
And I think some context might help. So let's say I, in terms of guilt, because I didn't
prepare for the job interview, I didn't get the job or I didn't get the promotion that I wanted.
So in that moment in time, I felt guilty. However, if I look back, I don't know,
three years have gone and I look back and I thought, I really didn't end that relationship
very well. Or maybe I could have done better. That is more regret. So guilt is more in the moment,
and regret is looking back to things that has happened in the past, but not something that
you can change. Perhaps something that you can change going forward, you know, as a part of
learning from it. GS. But for some reason, we still feel guilty, for example, of being scared
of making the wrong choice. We have been scared of the consequences and it's a very difficult
feeling to get away from. We can respond to it by increasing, you know, the focus on the purpose.
We find a way how we're going to fulfill that purpose and we can put all our attention to it
with, you know, the least amount of this feeling that we're doing something wrong in case we just
need to prepare to analyze it and reflect on it and stick to our guns or make another sacrifice.
Because that sometimes happens as well. CBF. Yeah, and sometimes we can be made to
feel guilty as well, depending on who we surround ourselves with. Sometimes not from an ill-intentioned
perspective, but perhaps, for example, if you've decided to leave and come to the UK
and some people around you made you feel guilty, like you're leaving me behind, you don't care about
me. Sometimes you're made to feel that way as well and what you said previously about setting
boundaries then comes really important in this case because you almost go, I know you say this
because you will miss me or you are afraid that our relationship will change one way or another.
However, the way that you're verbalizing it, it's not constructive. It doesn't help me,
doesn't help you, doesn't help our relationship or our friendship even. And so understanding that
there is also the external sources where the guilt might come from and the guilt might also
come from your own expectation on what you need to do. So setting the goals. Yes, as a son or
or as a friend and making sure that you discuss the expectation with the people involved
would be more helpful than you trying to bottle it up yourself and contained all that feeling
in within. Well, I think that when we're reflecting on the past and we come to a conclusion that we
regret doing or not doing something, I think that it is a very disruptive feeling
because I feel that it blocks me from understanding the current situation and it creates
the kind of a feeling of like a separate reality that we would have created otherwise. And I think
that going forward and thinking about the purpose or change the purpose of the sacrifice, the purpose
of our sacrifice is still ahead of us. So often we may need to revisit it just to reignite the
desire to pursue that goal of the sacrifice in terms of your investment of the work you put into
it. But I feel that regret makes you live in history and I think that you should remember the
history but not live it. I guess it's how much the regret affects you in the way of I can regret
something and learn from it and move on or I can ruminate in the regret and I guess that's the
difference. I think when you ruminate in the regret and want to live in the past and almost
change it or revisit the past in your head to any foreseeable outcome that you want to have,
then it will be a disruptive force because you cannot be present to now.
I like what you're saying because I've learned just now something that you can even regret in
a better way. I want to say that it is no harm in regretting what you've done previously. I
guess that's how we learn. It's just making sure that it doesn't run your current reality. Like
you said, you can't be just reliving that all the time in your head and say, oh I should have,
and everything that's happening now right in front of you just flies past you because
you're not there. Speaking about learning from the past, from the regrets that you
had a chance to think about when you're going into the past and revisiting it,
I think that it could play a part when it allows us to sit in with it to try to, for example,
apologize to people that we might have hurt or caused harm to. I think that it could be
important part of the process for someone to learn to forgive ourselves as well.
It's also good to write about it if you feel that regret has to be channeled through writing
so you can put it behind in a way. I don't know, I can imagine that it would help some people.
Yeah so I actually did this in terms of writing it. So I think you have a lot of different ways
of dealing with regret. The way of apologizing can be one-sided, especially if the other party
doesn't want to revisit. True, but you'll still be doing it for yourself in a way. Exactly and
I think you have to understand that when you are dealing with regret you have to,
again like you said, what's the purpose of you apologizing? Is it because for you to let go?
However, if you're apologizing to the other party that you've hurt, it might be for that person,
they're not there yet. They're not ready to forgive, they're not ready to let go,
and by you apologizing it just triggers another memory or reaction to what's happened in the
past. And so another option that you've mentioned about writing it down was something that I chose
to let go, but only for me because I don't know where the other party is and my way of letting go
shouldn't be dependent on the other person's reaction. And so that's what I did. I wrote it
down and in my head envisioned the letter burned. It wasn't a physical letter, but you know the
thought of it helps. I think that there's something else that might help us with regrets. It's
sometimes discussing it or opening up to someone about it because then we sometimes have a
different view of the situation that might have happened and someone else can light it in a
different way. And we might start to understand that it wasn't all doom and gloom from a different
perspective because we often can put ourselves down and the actual harm or consequences of our
choices or our sacrifice can be different to our perception of it.
Yeah and I guess there is always this danger for any regret that you have, especially if it's kept
in isolation, becomes a feeling of shame. And that's when you are so afraid of sharing it with
anybody else because you think it will make you less worthy of a friend or a fill in the blank.
And so when you open up, the empathy that you get, the compassion that you get from other people
will give you a different perspective, I absolutely agree. I think it's helpful to discuss it in a
brave space, in a safe space perhaps when you have the support around you. And so stepping away from
that to what can I learn from it and how can I do better next time by learning from my mistake
and be a better friend or be a better partner or leader. It applies in every way whether it's
in a work setting or a personal setting.
Very true. I think that the best way, I said that it is a disruptive feeling regret for me because it doesn't make me feel better.
But there is one instance that I think that you could gain the most is when you use regret to
clarify your purpose but also to clarify your values. Going forward I think that this is
important in putting things behind you and crystallizing what really matters to you.
There is also an interesting point about sacrifice when I was thinking about it when we were planning
this episode that it can be perceived very selfish and that can also develop into feeling of guilt
because we're doing those things to fulfill our purpose and I think it's through setting
boundaries to ourselves to others we can then fully commit to it and appreciate the purpose of our sacrifice.
Yeah and I think one of the simplest examples that I can think of is if I want to start or I have
started to create a routine where I go to bed at a set time and wake up at a set time because I want
to have a better quality of sleep and that helps me in a lot of different ways. And so a way of
setting boundaries and in some way sacrificing is to say I can't go out after 10 o'clock, can't go
after nine and by doing that I'm sacrificing my social life to some extent not entirely.
However it will then depend on what groups of people I have around me.
The supportive friends will go yep that's fine we'll work around it we'll go out for lunch for
example. Some people who feel more threatened and more fear-driven will then think that can be quite
selfish we always go out at night why do we all have to accommodate because of you? You don't have
to but in terms of how other people can perceive it as being selfish I get that. And you know this
is one of many examples sometimes it can be setting the boundaries in a workplace to say
you know no I've got enough on my plate I cannot sacrifice any more of my time doing this because
if I do that I'm sacrificing my time with the family. And so it's always a tricky balance like
something has to give because you only have a set amount of capacity. I think there are different
me's and there are different you's and everybody is different. I think if somebody is labeling
either themselves or others as selfish because somebody committed to something
that's where you experience the world-renowned phenomenon that's called an opinion.
And you know you are entitled to it I think. I think there is one more thing that we need to
talk about and it's quite tricky in that respect. How do we know that we sacrifice
too much and when do we know it? And is it easy to quit or stop?
CBF I don't think so. I think you know like when they talk about you might hear this frequently
either in the movie so you might hear it from people around you. I've spent too much time on
this. I've given too much of myself. Now you want me to stop? Now you want me to pull back?
I'm too far in and I can't just have a clear head to call it quits.
Or switch. Yeah or switch something else or switch to something else and there is always
again I believe this comes from fear. What if all of my effort all of my time
is then deemed as a waste? But then we are also creatures of a habit so once we start
doing something we continue once we get used to it and get over the initial fears and everything
else we just get used to it and it becomes our routine. So then trying to pull it back is
in your opinion of the person who is sacrificing in context of what we were talking about today
you think that you will be able to go back from before sacrifice and live as if nothing happened
and that's not possible. Things change, people change, pantare, everything you know the river
can't stop. These are our thoughts on guilt regret and sacrifice whether it's thrown upon
us or whether we commit to something. What about you? Have you sacrificed a lot a little gained a
bit gained nothing? Have a little think if you would like to share it with us we'd be very happy
to have a little look closer and to discuss it with you with others tell us what you think.
Now we are heading to Yuen Reads and we'll see you next week bye-bye.
It's about time for Yuen Reads.
Yuen reads today a book called Harriet Lerner with the title 'Why won't you apologize'.
Can you imagine having an expert on speed dial? This book feels like that it explains why some
forgiveness when spoken made the listener felt even more furious. The guide is transformative
for me and gave me brilliant tips on how to heal wounds that I've inflicted or suffered through
through a more mindful and meaningful way. She allowed space of resisting pressure
to forgive when I'm not ready and made me reflect on why people apologize all the time or never at
all.
My name is Yuen.
My name is Mike. It's Yuen. Welcome to The Imperfect Clinician. Thank you for listening
to The Imperfect Clinician podcast. Grow and learn with us using our experience and flaws
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